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MFM Hard Drive testing in a more modern PC

targeteye

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Dec 19, 2016
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Location
Houston, Texas
I have a bunch of MFM drives that I need to test but alas I do not have a function PC from the correct time period yet. If I were to obtain an MFM ISA card and install it in say a AMD 64 motherboard (Gigabyte) what are the ods the system will recognize the card and the drives?

Steve
 
I have a bunch of MFM drives that I need to test but alas I do not have a function PC from the correct time period yet. If I were to obtain an MFM ISA card and install it in say a AMD 64 motherboard (Gigabyte) what are the ods the system will recognize the card and the drives?

Steve

Steve, if you were closer to San Antonio, I could help you test them (Houston is about 3 hours from me). Last year, I tested a bunch of MFM and RLL drives (went through darn near over a thousand drives over the course of several weeks). I actually picked up a 286 that has a BIOS I really like, that will do auto-interleave, allow you to specify bad track lists, verify drives, etc.

As for a modern PC - the best you could hope for is an older 486 based system or even a Pentium with no disk controller on the system board. I did this back in high school in the 90s, but you'd be better off with a 386 or below.

##EDIT## I'm curious what/how many drives you have. Also, for looking up drive geometry, I've always used theref43 (you can find it on google). It's a comprehensive list of MFM, RLL, ESDI, and some early IDE drives showing geometry, specs, landing zone, precomp, etc. Definitely invaluable when matching the drive with a Type in the bios, or having to input the geometry yourself if there's no Type close to the drive.
 
I have a bunch of MFM drives that I need to test but alas I do not have a function PC from the correct time period yet. If I were to obtain an MFM ISA card and install it in say a AMD 64 motherboard (Gigabyte) what are the ods the system will recognize the card and the drives?

Steve
Do you really think that motherboard even knows what an ISA slot looks like! :)
 
If I were to obtain an MFM ISA card and install it in say a AMD 64 motherboard (Gigabyte) what are the ods the system will recognize the card and the drives?
Zero.

First of all, you must have a system with an ISA slot. Manufactures dropped that ~2001.

Even if you had something like an industrial ISA/PCI breakout box, the "modern" slabs of sludge they call computers today don't have the built in compatiblity smarts for that type of device.

Motherboard from late model 486s (the ones with PCI and everything integrated) and on can have various issues with those cards, even if they have ISA slots.

Best bet is just a plain old 286 to early (ISA only, no integrated stuff) 486.
 
##EDIT## I'm curious what/how many drives you have. Also, for looking up drive geometry, I've always used theref43 (you can find it on google). It's a comprehensive list of MFM, RLL, ESDI, and some early IDE drives showing geometry, specs, landing zone, precomp, etc. Definitely invaluable when matching the drive with a Type in the bios, or having to input the geometry yourself if there's no Type close to the drive.

Thanks for the help. I suppose "a bunch of" is relative. I've only a 8 or so not hundreds... how do you even come across hundreds! :). I have some old 386 and 486 boards. I will try and see if the will come up in a while. The drives I have I think are common.
 
Zero.

First of all, you must have a system with an ISA slot. Manufactures dropped that ~2001.

Even if you had something like an industrial ISA/PCI breakout box, the "modern" slabs of sludge they call computers today don't have the built in compatiblity smarts for that type of device.

Motherboard from late model 486s (the ones with PCI and everything integrated) and on can have various issues with those cards, even if they have ISA slots.

Best bet is just a plain old 286 to early (ISA only, no integrated stuff) 486.


Thanks for the help. I have a few of those boards. I guess the first step is to get one of them running. One of the 486s is a Local bus board.
 
Last year, I tested a bunch of MFM and RLL drives (went through darn near over a thousand drives over the course of several weeks).
What the success rate was?

In general, yes, the older the PC, the easier to use old drives.
But there's some chance in new PCs as well, a few hints:
- ISA slot is a must, of course
- use 16-bit (AT) rather than 8-bit (XT) MFM controller card, 8-bit controllers have BIOS which may cause conflicts in newer machines, and uses DMA, modern industrial mobos with ISA often lack DMA support
- disable onboard IDE, it may be enough to disable just the primary channel
- manually enter HDD parameters, MFM drives can't be autodetected
- use PIO mode 0, and disable any special IDE features (block mode, SMART, etc.)
- modern BIOSes don't have HDD low level format utility, so you need appropriate software, eg. HDINIT.EXE from Checkit 3.0, Speed Stor, or similar
 
I have a bunch of MFM drives that I need to test

For first pass testing (ie. does the drive come ready, can I read from it) you can use Dave Gesswein's MFM emulator on a modern PC.
If the thing can sucessfully read tracks, you can weed out about 90% of the drives.

It wouldn't be difficult to actually write code to test drives with it since there is code to read a write tracks, just no one has done it yet.

Also, check for cable termination, and the select jumper being set correctly.

I've gone through about 200 MFM drives over the past couple of months and the majority that fail either have stuck spindle motors,
head actuators (Micropolis), or they were jumpered wrong.

Or, if they are Maxtor, leaking filter caps.
 
For first pass testing (ie. does the drive come ready, can I read from it) you can use Dave Gesswein's MFM emulator on a modern PC.
If the thing can sucessfully read tracks, you can weed out about 90% of the drives.
Doesn't that still require an ISA slot?
 
Doesn't that still require an ISA slot?

No, it is a standalone device running as a cape on a Beaglebone that you talk to either through ethernet or as a tethered USB device.
It's basically a very small Linux system running out of flash that has a shell interface that has turned out to be incredibly handy.
 
What's the cardedge connector for?

for running it as a MFM drive replacement

basically, the track images are stored in flash and sent out if the device
is running the emulation program.

for data capture, you would normally use the IDC plugs

here's a picture of my bench lashup
mfm_reader.jpg
 
Motherboard from late model 486s (the ones with PCI and everything integrated) and on can have various issues with those cards, even if they have ISA slots.

Best bet is just a plain old 286 to early (ISA only, no integrated stuff) 486.

Yup. That would truly be your best bet. Anything with integrated IDE is just asking for trouble (some 486 systems had it, but not super common). And manufacturer-specific, like IBM, Compaq, HP, etc 486s will also be a problem.
 
Thanks for the help. I suppose "a bunch of" is relative. I've only a 8 or so not hundreds... how do you even come across hundreds! :). I have some old 386 and 486 boards. I will try and see if the will come up in a while. The drives I have I think are common.

Data recovery firm in Orange County that was going out of business and selling old inventory. Lots of NOS drives, drives to which had been opened and data recovered, drives that hadn't been touched. Some drives I tested had no errors, others had constant errors on EVERY sector. I think this guy had about 3 or 4 gaylords worth of drives. Thankfully, out of the mess, I got about 5 or 6 working drives, a PS/2 Model 50, and an older Sun shoebox that I'll be using for SCSI drives with my Sun 3/60. Oh, and some old MFM drive testers (I saved one, not sure if they chucked the other two).

If you have just 8, I'd suggest powering them up first. At least see if they sound "normal." If they make really odd noises or it sounds like the heads are crashing, then that eliminates part of your testing. I got smart and did this ultimately on several hundred drives, and it saved me considerable time.

What the success rate was?
Good question. Not that high. Maybe 1-2 drives for every 10-15? One day, I might've had a 95% success rate, the next day, maybe 5%. I wish I counted the total number of drives and then had the total number of good tested drives to get a percentage. But it wasn't that high.


I've gone through about 200 MFM drives over the past couple of months and the majority that fail either have stuck spindle motors,
head actuators (Micropolis), or they were jumpered wrong.

Or, if they are Maxtor, leaking filter caps.

Are those the components that pop and start smoking on Maxtor and Miniscribe 5.25" drives, right at the front right corner of the drive (where the drive is upside down, and the cable connector is facing away from you)? I think the Seagate ST22x series also had a bad IC of some sort that had a high failure rate, as I remember a bunch of boards reworked in the 90s to replace this IC. Nearly all of the IBM drives (non-SCSI) I'd tested were crap and didn't work. Rodime also seemed to have a bad reputation, and I couldn't get a single one of those working.

for running it as a MFM drive replacement

basically, the track images are stored in flash and sent out if the device
is running the emulation program.

for data capture, you would normally use the IDC plugs

here's a picture of my bench lashup
View attachment 35329


That's pretty cool! I've tested several drives like the one that's connected to that board, but I can't remember the brand. Was almost going to say Shugart. Looks like either a Micropolis or Miniscribe behind it, and an Imprimis to the center left.
 
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That's pretty cool! I've tested several drives like the one that's connected to that board, but I can't remember the brand. Was almost going to say Shugart. Looks like either a Micropolis or Miniscribe behind it, and an Imprimis to the center left.

Cogito (pretty obscure)
Imprimis (Rigidyne) 94355-150 (rare 3" MFM)
and a bunch of crap Maxtor 760 SCSIs. I've been trying to find ONE working board off one. they are really bad. The 1.2g is solid though.
 
Good question. Not that high. Maybe 1-2 drives for every 10-15? One day, I might've had a 95% success rate, the next day, maybe 5%. I wish I counted the total number of drives and then had the total number of good tested drives to get a percentage. But it wasn't that high.
.

Well, I guess I shouldn't get my hopes up that any of these drives are good then. Bummer.
 
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