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Please fix the PM system

VERAULT said:
Can we please put member locations back below thier avatars? I assumed this would have been done by now.. People keep posting messages dependant on thier location and its not obvious. Do not tell me to click on thier profile that defeats the purpose of having thier location obvious.
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Unfortunately, this isn’t possible in VB5, without a custom template. If anyone wants to take a crack at adding it to a template, we’re open to a submission.

- Alex
 
Timo W. said:
Are you saying no one responsible for the forum is able to add some HTML to the template?
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I'm sure people have the technical skills. Time might be an issue. And not wanting to make something worse is a big consideration too - if something breaks then the person who broke it gets to fix it.
​
 
ajacocks said:
Unfortunately, this isn’t possible in VB5, without a custom template. If anyone wants to take a crack at adding it to a template, we’re open to a submission.

- Alex
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It’s bizarre to me that this is your answer to everything. Why would the users of a forum be expected to supply the providers of the forum with forum code? That is completely nonsensical to me.
 
thenzero said:
It’s bizarre to me that this is your answer to everything. Why would the users of a forum be expected to supply the providers of the forum with forum code? That is completely nonsensical to me.
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I have to agree. Wouldn't this require some knowledge of vBulletin and the inner workings of this forum? VB scripting ain't hard but you'd have to have an idea of what the problem is.
 
thenzero said:
It’s bizarre to me that this is your answer to everything. Why would the users of a forum be expected to supply the providers of the forum with forum code? That is completely nonsensical to me.
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Because we're all volunteers and maybe somebody would like to help us by throwing some time into fixing a problem for us instead of endlessly bitching about it?

If you were paying for this service I'd understand not wanting to lift a finger to make it work better ...
 
mbbrutman said:
Because we're all volunteers and maybe somebody would like to help us by throwing some time into fixing a problem for us instead of endlessly bitching about it?

If you were paying for this service I'd understand not wanting to lift a finger to make it work better ...
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Again…that is completely nonsensical. We don’t have access to your code or the details of your configuration or your logs or…
 
mbbrutman said:
Because we're all volunteers and maybe somebody would like to help us by throwing some time into fixing a problem for us instead of endlessly bitching about it?
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Sorry, but even if you are volunteers, you are still responsible. You did choose to take care of the forums - no one forced you. And now you are bitching about no users are throwing in their time to help you out? Are you serious? Did you even ask the users if they want the upgrade? The mess we have now is not the fault of the users without this community wouldn't even exist.

It sounds more and more to me that no one has the technical skills to even do simple changes that require little to no knowledge. The makers of vB won't add anything to the template for you, nor will they move links around, or whatever. That's stuff supposed to be done by the admin. This is common and the reason why software like this relies on very-easy-to-understand template systems like Smarty. Everyone can make changes to that when willing to invest a few minutes to learn the basics. But it seems that willingness isn't even there. Over three months have passed already since we got "this" with absolutely no progress at all.
 
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Okay, I'm no web-monster, but I wondered at the beginning of this escapade if the http: content of the original forum software couldn't have been encapsulated in an https: wrapper.

Perhaps more knowledgeable people would like to comment on this--I'm out of my wheelhouse on this one. It is a shame--users can no longer use their legacy OS and browser (e.g. Netscape 2.0) to access the web content.
 
I don't want to pillory you, Mike, you're a good guy and we appreciate the years of low-key responsible moderation. But the fact of the matter is that this forum was working A-okay for many, many years before the staff took unwanted actions that broke it for the users. Whether or not the users are able to help fix it has no bearing on whether they're entitled to feel a bit miffed at the staff for so doing.
 
Timo W. said:
Sorry, but even if you are volunteers, you are still responsible. You did choose to take care of the forums - no one forced you. And now you are bitching about no users are throwing in their time to help you out? Are you serious? Did you even ask the users if they want the upgrade? The mess we have now is not the fault of the users without this community wouldn't even exist.

It sounds more and more to me that no one has the technical skills to even do simple changes that require little to no knowledge. The makers of vB won't add anything to the template for you, nor will they move links around, or whatever. That's stuff supposed to be done by the admin. This is common and the reason why software like this relies on very-easy-to-understand template systems like Smarty. Everyone can make changes to that when willing to invest a few minutes to learn the basics. But it seems that willingness isn't even there. Over three months have passed already since we got "this" with absolutely no progress at all.
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Actually, no, I'm not responsible. While I support the upgrade and I know it was needed, I did not take part in the decision or mechanics of it except for some immediate damage mitigation after it went live. I stepped away from VCF leadership back in December and I've reduced the amount of time I spend moderating in part because I don't have a lot of time (or patience) for it anymore.

I think the upgrade mostly went well. Where things have gone bad is in the post upgrade follow-up to the unforeseen problems. I agree that they should be more aggressively addressed and status updates should be provided. If it were my project I would be doing those things, but like I said I already had to step back quite a bit and I'm not willing to take on more projects. And to be fair, the people who did the upgrade are probably still very busy themselves which might explain why the problems persist.

So please, if you want to complain about the upgrade and the aftermath, do so - just do it in a civil manner and to the people who are responsible for driving it. (https://vcfed.org/wp/about/governance/) If you have time, offer your assistance and if your offer is reasonable I'm sure people will consider it and grant you the access that you need to make things better.
 
commodorejohn said:
I don't want to pillory you, Mike, you're a good guy and we appreciate the years of low-key responsible moderation. But the fact of the matter is that this forum was working A-okay for many, many years before the staff took unwanted actions that broke it for the users. Whether or not the users are able to help fix it has no bearing on whether they're entitled to feel a bit miffed at the staff for so doing.
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Commodorejohn - Thanks.

Everybody understands the frustration around the upgrade. Moderators were especially hit hard by it:
  • New user permissions were immediately reset to a default allowing all sorts of spam.
  • The spam control mechanism failed miserably in all sorts of ways.
  • The hosting service spam controls were even more hilarious - I personally had my IP address blocked because I was doing a lot of moderation in the first few days trying to combat the spam problem. (Unfortunately we need those controls because spam bots are what are destroying our performance, even now.)
  • All of the forum controls moved around to new and exciting places that we had a hard time finding.
  • Even moderation controls were broken; we had to promote everybody basically to "super moderator" to get back to function that we previously had.
I think I had a chance to check out the new forum before it went live, but I didn't do anything more than a basic "does it load" type of check. The people who did the migration did far more extensive checks.

We understand. But you are shouting into the void here - the people who did the upgrade are generally not reading these threads. If you want to provide feedback, emailing them is more direct and might work better.


Mike
 
Timo W. said:
<snip>
It sounds more and more to me that no one has the technical skills to even do simple changes that require little to no knowledge. The makers of vB won't add anything to the template for you, nor will they move links around, or whatever. That's stuff supposed to be done by the admin. This is common and the reason why software like this relies on very-easy-to-understand template systems like Smarty. Everyone can make changes to that when willing to invest a few minutes to learn the basics. But it seems that willingness isn't even there. Over three months have passed already since we got "this" with absolutely no progress at all.
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By the way, guilty as charged. I have the technical skills and the brain power to learn what needs to be done and fix most things. I'm *not* willing to step into the cesspool that is vBulletin. I'm sure other people have their reasons too, which is why we keep asking for volunteers who want to make the investment.

I'd rather be polishing up my code that prints JPGs on my 35 year old thermal printer, finishing up my stratum-1 PCjr time server, making mTCP enhancements, etc. Modifying vBulletin templates is not on my short list of fun things to do. I've done enough here.
 
mbbrutman said:
Commodorejohn - Thanks.

Everybody understands the frustration around the upgrade. Moderators were especially hit hard by it:
  • New user permissions were immediately reset to a default allowing all sorts of spam.
  • The spam control mechanism failed miserably in all sorts of ways.
  • The hosting service spam controls were even more hilarious - I personally had my IP address blocked because I was doing a lot of moderation in the first few days trying to combat the spam problem. (Unfortunately we need those controls because spam bots are what are destroying our performance, even now.)
  • All of the forum controls moved around to new and exciting places that we had a hard time finding.
  • Even moderation controls were broken; we had to promote everybody basically to "super moderator" to get back to function that we previously had.
I think I had a chance to check out the new forum before it went live, but I didn't do anything more than a basic "does it load" type of check. The people who did the migration did far more extensive checks.

We understand. But you are shouting into the void here - the people who did the upgrade are generally not reading these threads. If you want to provide feedback, emailing them is more direct and might work better.


Mike
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I have to say I really appreciate this insight into the “rhyming” problems the moderators are also experiencing behind the scenes. Reading this makes it glaringly obvious that the new vbulletin is just the wrong software choice for the forums. I hope whoever is making the decisions on that also comes to the same conclusion.
 
Timo W. said:
Well, English is a terrible language when it comes to precision. I refered not to you as a person but to you as the people who run the forums, of which you are a part of.
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Mike is the "Gatekeeper" so to speak. There are other in the background that have actual hands on. Try sending a PM to Erik. I did.
 
Timo W. said:
Well, English is a terrible language when it comes to precision. I refered not to you as a person but to you as the people who run the forums, of which you are a part of.
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That makes as much sense as blaming a Red Cross aid worker for failings of the larger organization.

Your expectations needs to be adjusted or corrected if you think you have the right to hold every volunteer collectively responsible.



Agent Orange .. I am a moderator, not a "gatekeeper" in any way.
 
Well, I finally got one of those blank PMs.

In the message center clicking the title normally shows the entire message, but it appears blank.

Using the browser HTML inspector, I see the DIV where the message text should appear, but there is simply no text data loaded in to the page.

Since I have it set to send me an email, the email showed me a "preview" of the content. This means the content should be in the database somewhere. Since the message appeared to be short, I believe in this case the email contained the entire message. The only odd thing in the content was a couple of stray and visible "<br />" tags at the end of the first two lines. This is also how it appears in the raw e-mail source.

Also, the member that PMed me is a new member who does not yet have 10 posts.
 
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