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eBay GSP screwed me out of my IBM 5150

mR_Slug

mR_Slug

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
941
Location
UK
I saw this thread a while ago, and usually I would say the GSP is fantastic, never had a problem. However my last purchase has been an absolute nightmare. I found a 5150 on ebay sn: 0130356, stock as far as I can tell. I think this is one of the very first made in '82. The images were terrible, but the seller answered all my questions, and I got it for $150. Then the seller tells me he has the original box!

So It's shipped via the GSP and as far as I can tell eBay have forcefully purchased it from me. They said it had a 'customs issue' and gave me a number to quote to customs when I rang them. Then I contacted ebay again, and they told me that number was their transcript number, so they lied. I used their live chat trying to find out where it is. First they tell me it is in customs, then later in the same conversation I found out it had never even reached customs. Their GSP in Kentucky still had it, it had never left there, and THEY had decided it had 'customs issues'.

Now I know there are no customs issues as I've bought a 5150 via the GSP before. They could not even give a reason as to what the 'customs issue' is. They then shifted blame to Pitney Bowes, then later on admitted the GSP and Pitney Bowes are the same thing. They gave me the runaround for 3 hours! They then told me the item would be liquidated. So I said I would buy the liquidated stock. They then tell me liquidated means destroyed! This is not a UK definition of liquidated.

Eventually they told me the seller would have to ask to have the item shipped back to them, so we could arrange alternative shipping. So the seller contacts them. They then tell the seller it is stuck in customs. They keep changing their story.

What can I do? Any ideas? Is this even legal?

I'm really gutted about this, trying to find an early 5150 is difficult anyway. But in the UK, you have the shipping cost, and worse the ridiculously high tax on imports!
 
I am sorry to hear the issue you are having.

Maybe someone in the forum that is in Kentucky in the same town can go to GSP centre and speak on your behalf. Make sure you provide details.

Here in Australia, even our International Mail Customs Center has a counter you can visit, just takes a bit of effort.

If as you indicate Ebay/GSP say this is a Customs issue then my guess is the seller filled out some paperwork and called the computer 'special' (as in something that is not exportable)

good luck
 
And this is why you never use the GSP.

The only purpose of Ebay's GSP is to line their pockets with money by using the absolute worst shipping services, and washing their hands of all liability when something inevitably goes wrong.

If you ever get Ebay scum to release your 5150 back to the seller, use proper international shipping channels from UPS, Fedex or national mail service.

When you go cheap, you're going to have a bad time.
 
It could well actually be stuck in customs. I've found GSP to be notoriously deficient with its tracking. Are you in Canada? Canada customs is an absolute abomination. To give you an example, I had some adhesive strips for an imac screen shipped up to me from ifixit.com. From Washington to British Columbia. 7.5 weeks! And it was all due to customs just sitting on it. They do that with almost everything now because they inspect everything trying to get every nickel of GST and customs they're owed. It sucks.

That's post, anyway. I'm not a fan of ebay's GSP just because it has to ship to one place first and *then* to you, but I suppose we should be grateful that it opens some doors for international buyers. But I did find it was really slow regardless and had horrible customer service. I ended up getting an account with myus.com. People send stuff to me via post to my myus.com address, it's there within 2 days, if I ship with the regular Fed Ex it's here within 2 more. Way faster, way less ridiculous and Canada Customs for some reason doesn't keep it until dust collects on it.
 
I found this on the eBay Community Forum. It describes using the GSP to ship to Canada, but maybe the same is true for shipping to the UK:

"Ebay and Pitney Bowes use a third party packing company in ERLINGER, KENTUCKY to handle GSP.

GSP to Canada from what I understand is via bulk shipping using a freight company, so it could be clumsier and slower than USPS, hence it is more suitable for bulky items. not vinyl sheets or Barbie dolls.

And the customs issue you mentioned, and the handling fee charged by this packing company.

and it does not combine shipping, thats a known fact.

If a shipment cannot be shipped for whatever reason, it will be sold to a local dealer who also sells on Ebay and buyer is refunded and seller gets to keep his money."

I think that last sentence is the crux of the problem. The Global Shipping Program is run by a for-profit company. So apparently from time to time they make the decision that if it isn't profitable enough for them to ship the item to its destination, they'll write it off -- the seller keeps the money they made from the eBay sale, the buyer gets a refund, the item gets "liquidated", and everyone gets the runaround about exactly what happened -- and Pitney Bowes thinks that's an acceptable solution.

I recommend you watch eBay like a hawk to see if gets relisted by whomever acquires it from the liquidation.
 
Simply put I call that 'theft by Fraud'

Plan fact

Person A has an item that they wish to have money instead of. So A Sets price and lists it on a sale site
Person B has money and wishes Person A's item instead. B Accepts A's price inc Shipping and pays A

Company C, the transaction and delivery intermediary between the two has NO right to just decide this delivery is too hard to deliver or I am not making enough on it, and simply 'steals' the item to then sell on to a fourth party to recope some costs.

OK A and C both get money, BUT that's NOT the reason for A and B doing business. THE ITEM is the reason.
 
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vwestlife said:
I found this on the eBay Community Forum. It describes using the GSP to ship to Canada, but maybe the same is true for shipping to the UK:

"Ebay and Pitney Bowes use a third party packing company in ERLINGER, KENTUCKY to handle GSP.

GSP to Canada from what I understand is via bulk shipping using a freight company, so it could be clumsier and slower than USPS, hence it is more suitable for bulky items. not vinyl sheets or Barbie dolls.

And the customs issue you mentioned, and the handling fee charged by this packing company.

and it does not combine shipping, thats a known fact.

If a shipment cannot be shipped for whatever reason, it will be sold to a local dealer who also sells on Ebay and buyer is refunded and seller gets to keep his money."

I think that last sentence is the crux of the problem. The Global Shipping Program is run by a for-profit company. So apparently from time to time they make the decision that if it isn't profitable enough for them to ship the item to its destination, they'll write it off -- the seller keeps the money they made from the eBay sale, the buyer gets a refund, the item gets "liquidated", and everyone gets the runaround about exactly what happened -- and Pitney Bowes thinks that's an acceptable solution.

I recommend you watch eBay like a hawk to see if gets relisted by whomever acquires it from the liquidation.
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mR-Slug You indicated you have the Serial Number and also model Number. So I would recommend both you and the seller file a stolen goods report with the Police. Especially also in ERLINGER, KENTUCKY. Try and find out the Liquidator they use, and inform the item is Stolen and must be handed into Police.

You have a legal document indicating you purchased it. You NEVER gave anyone authority to dispose of it SO IT IS STILL your property.
Same legal premise I think of someone taking a parcel from you letter box/ or front porch and heading to a pawn broker.

I would then inform eBay you have filed a theft report with the police. Since its identifable by its serial number you have a DAMN good case.
My guess if this happens a lot then a US federal authority would take then to task.

Hopefully the seller ad had serial number listed and you can get screen shot of it.
Plus you can request seller to resupply you an invoice with s/n added



If it does does come back up on eBay, then tell the seller its been stolen, and the Police have been notified.
 
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inotarobot said:
If it does does come back up on eBay, then tell the seller its been stolen, and the Police have been notified.
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Many many stolen things appear on ebay. The police won't get involved (the ATF maybe, if it's something that concerns them specifically). In the US it seems it's up to individuals to hire a lawyer and persue the matter, or alert the BBB, or State Attorney General. The police in Kentucky are not likely to get involved with something like that, when it involves someone from another country, no offense meant.

This is all just strange. Better though that you find someone on this side of the pond you can trust. I don't buy big ticket items on ebay anymore (that being anything over 150$). I bought a vintage puter on ebay for 200$ once, and while it didn't arrived bashed up, it should have, as the moron threw it in a box and stuffed some newspaper on the sides, and not even much at that. I did buy a mono Canon AS-100 on ebay some years back, and got half my money back. Well they refunded all of it (only 80$ with the shipping), and I sent half back, as the item still worked, but was cracked in a place or two. It's just so damned rare, and although I was pissed, I would have suffered pangs of guilt getting it all for free. My color AS-100 was free though. I really should send that guy a Christmas card at least.
 
vwestlife said:
So apparently from time to time they make the decision that if it isn't profitable enough for them to ship the item to its destination, they'll write it off -- the seller keeps the money they made from the eBay sale, the buyer gets a refund, the item gets "liquidated", and everyone gets the runaround about exactly what happened -- and Pitney Bowes thinks that's an acceptable solution.
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Wow, that is insanely crooked. That means they could decide to refuse to ship any item they think they could flip for more money. So if you think you got a really good deal on something, you might as well kiss it goodbye.

Horrifically disastrous for uncommon, rare, or one-of-a-kind items. If they see zero value in an item where shipping is not completable for any reason, such as "faulty" paperwork or packaging, and would cost money to return to the sender, then logically they would just throw it away. Makes me sick to my stomach.
 
The BBB is not a government agency and certainly not a police force.

I doubt any police or government agency would take this on. Have you read eBay's user agreement in its entirety? Have you read every word in every link in the auction? Have you read the GSP terms in full? If not, it might be prudent to hire a solicitor! But I suspect that might be more costly than a minty, early 5150.

The grammar in that eBay community explanation above doesn't leave me with any confidence in it.
 
8 didn't say it was. There were instances where I got scammed, called the BBB, and got my money back. In this case he got his money, so the BBB might not care. You could still alert them about unfair business practices.
 
Isn't this the same outfit that was previously mentioned as regularly re-packing items to reduce size, including removing packaging from new-in-box collectibles?

If the seller included the original box, even double boxed, that could have been what tripped them up. Disgusting.
 
Thank you all for your suggestions.

@GiGaBiTe
I have never had an issue before. Generally the GSP has been great. Some of the direct shipping charges are just insanely high to the UK, with random tax amounts.

@falter
From what they told me in a 'live chat' (I have transcripts) it never made it to customs. I'm in the UK btw. I don't mind slow if it is reliable, but now it appears it isn't anymore.

I actually setup an account with myus.com, while shipping the 5150. If anyone else uses their free service, make sure you supply the valuation document/bill of sale before the item gets there. They valued what I bought at 3 times what it was worth. Anyway Got it sorted, and ended up paying only £23 tax on that one. Wish I had used them for the 5150.

@vwestlife
Thanks for looking that out for me. I think it were profitable for them to ship it. The GSP shipping charges were not unusually low.

@inotarobot
I don't think the seller caused any issues with customs, they just ship domestically, there is no paper work. The GSP does all that.

'theft by Fraud' does seem like an accurate description. Your plan of action does make perfect sense, though as 2icebitn and KC9UDX point out they likely wont care, or eBay has a get-out-of-everything clause. I'll have to think about that a bit more closely. <rant>Here the police don't care about real crime. Last time my car was broken into i didn't even bother contacting them. Even child rape is swept under the carpet until massive public outcry</rant> In the grand scheme of things I guess I don't really have a REAL problem.

@SomeGuy
That I think is whats happened. It's profitable for them to ship it. But more profitable to flip it. For anything that is truly rare I doubt they'd know what it is. But I doubt the GSP itself would do this. For it to be worth their while, they'd have to do it so many times it would be well known about. It's too fiddly for a huge company. But an employee, who knows a liquidator, possibly.

The thing that's weird is the explanation of 'customs issue'. If the GSP were doing this, they'd probably come up with an explanation of "It was damaged/ran over by a forklift truck" and "we are unable to workout if it were our fault or the domestic courier, so we refunded you". That way I'd go on my merry way thinking what nice people. An employee, on the other hand may only be able to get the item into the liquidation route, by marking it as 'customs issue'.

I certainly will keep a close eye on eBay. I do anyway. I'm trying to build a registry of low s/n 5150s AFAIK they jumped from 011XXXX to 013XXXX, so 0130356 was a near edge case. Not seen a 012XXXX.

I think I'll try to contact eBay again and see if I can get anything else out of them. Thanks. BTW what is the BBB?
 
It's a shame that happened, I completely understand what it's like trying to find an early 5150 over here in the UK, Maybe i should look further afield.
 
Malc said:
It's a shame that happened, I completely understand what it's like trying to find an early 5150 over here in the UK, Maybe i should look further afield.
Click to expand...

Me thinks I need to go and see what model the IBM's are I have stored on top rack of my 40ft semi trailer. I simply have no idea now.

I recal having one with at least a metal case, however I moved twice so its possible they got put in ewaste by those helping me.
 
mR_Slug said:
BTW what is the BBB?
Click to expand...

Better Business Bureau. You can look on their site for information about an entity you'd like to have dealings with. Or you can contact them to alert them to instances where you got scammed. No one wants to get a bad score w/the BBB. Ok large well known outfits will take pains to resolve issues. But the bigger they are the more likely it is that small instances of *insert nefarious acts of criminality here* won't hurt them to any degree. Not sure what category what happened to you would fall under. You did get your money back, clearly there are instances where that is all ebay can guarantee. In most instances that's enough. When you're dealing with semi-rare artifacts, it's kind of another matter. Not sure how they would view such a case. As a Brit would they be interested in hearing from you? Well you're dealing with an American company (granted that has adjuncts overseas), bought the item from an American. Honestly can't see how you should be left out. You can sit down and draft a letter. You may be the guy that changes things. You should ask to speak to a supervisor, even someone in charge in that Kentucky shipping outfit. What exactly happened? Ebay will here and there throw out language that you would encounter in a formal auction house. There are laws on the books, that vary from state to state, having to do with auctions. At this stage in the game I think ebay *may* be viewed as "something else". I don't know. It depends how hard you want to push. I know the English take their auctions very seriously, us Yanks too, when it comes to formal auctions. There's just so much criminality these days, it's a question of how seriously anything gets taken. I've been to at least 1 small "country" auction, and things seemed a bit shady. So what good are laws when no one really cares to enforce them, or has the resources. That's what lawyers are for. If you can afford one.

I had to google for their website, I suggest you do the same, so I won't post it. It says "United States, Canada, and Mexico". Ok, so? Does that mean they have no responsibility to someone overseas who deals with an American company? And eBay clearly has dealings all over the world. That's what the blasted GSP is for! I wouldn't hesitate to contact them, see what happens.
 
inotarobot said:
Me thinks I need to go and see what model the IBM's are I have stored on top rack of my 40ft semi trailer. I simply have no idea now.

I recal having one with at least a metal case, however I moved twice so its possible they got put in ewaste by those helping me.
Click to expand...

Please do and let us know what you find, Personally i'm not looking for a later model 5150, I allready have a nice original one. Have you got any 5161's stashed away ?
 
mR_Slug said:
Thank you all for your suggestions.

@inotarobot
I don't think the seller caused any issues with customs, they just ship domestically, there is no paper work. The GSP does all that.

'theft by Fraud' does seem like an accurate description. Your plan of action does make perfect sense, though as 2icebitn and KC9UDX point out they likely wont care, or eBay has a get-out-of-everything clause. I'll have to think about that a bit more closely. <rant>Here the police don't care about real crime. Last time my car was broken into i didn't even bother contacting them. Even child rape is swept under the carpet until massive public outcry</rant> In the grand scheme of things I guess I don't really have a REAL problem.

I think I'll try to contact eBay again and see if I can get anything else out of them. Thanks. BTW what is the BBB?
Click to expand...

I agree in a way the Police most likely dont really appear to care regarding such a miniscule 1 of event.

However as the old saying goes "Little drops of water and tiny grains of sand WEAR away the stone". So every time someone like yourself makes a fromal complaint and it get officially recorded, eventually the 'system' starts to note repeat pattern's that trigger an investigation. In some cases that has lead to a warrent, raid and recovery of a large stash of 'stolen' items.

If your names not in the barrel, then you cannot expect to be notified that you item has been located.

Remember your item had a serial number, to go with its model number.

So do at least log with as many authorities its 'loss and suspected theft'
 
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