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eBay GSP screwed me out of my IBM 5150

Malc said:
Please do and let us know what you find, Personally i'm not looking for a later model 5150, I allready have a nice original one. Have you got any 5161's stashed away ?
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Hi Mal,
I am suffering from severe gastro, so only had a quick look just inside my Semi on way back from Doctor. I saw one early IBM. Climbed up and lifted it down, poped it in car. Now on my bench I see its a 5160. Over the next few hours to few days I will do a seperate post on it.

And I am certain I will offer it for sale.
 
Thanks for looking and hope you get better soon, I have a few 5160's, relatively common in the UK, Somebody will want it i'm sure.
 
I had items shipped from Australia over 10 years ago. It was surprisingly affordable. Nothing as heavy as a 5160, but still. As I recall it was 2 or 3 Sega/Yeno SC-3000s. I've since sold them :(. I doubt it would be as cheap today (I'm in New Jersey).
 
Thanks for all your responses. I haven't really an update yet, got to get on with this but too many things to do. Kinda feel like it's one of those tasks that's going to be a lot of work, with no result. Bureaucracies!

I've often wondered what would happen if a large corporation were dealing with someone like Saddam Hussein, I imagine the conversation would end up something like this:
<Saddam> Look I have a missile aimed at your building. I want this issue resolved now. OR ELSE!
<operator> please hold

Honestly even faced with certain death, I don't think you'd get any better service out of them.

Hope you get better soon inotarobot.
 
Well an update of sorts. Turns out AFAIK the GSP is reselling items for profit!

I have spent another 3 hours with customer service. and have got every excuse under the sun. eBay have told me, it "never left the GSP center", was "rejected by customs" and is simultaneously "lost in the mail". They have just given me the runaround.

So I was searching ebay on another computer where i was not logged in. and I found this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Working-IB...g_cvip=true&nordt=true&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I missed it by 2 days!

here is the original listing:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/WORKING-IB...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2748.l2649

Things get even more annoying. If I look at the sellers items for sale while logged in there are none! Not logged in 14,000 items. I did a bit of searching on the user. googling "8ten1944 GSP scam" turns up some results. From what I can piece together, It looks like if either the GSP (or someone working there) thinks they can sell the item for more, they send it on to this guy and sell for profit. They even have the nerve to use the same pictures!
 
I am a bit shaky on what GSP is. Are they a private company contracted by the United States Postal System (USPS)? Or are they USPS?

In any event, have you considered reaching out to the USPS Inspection Service? From what I gather they take fraud like this VERY seriously, they exist to shut down scams that involve the USPS system. And I think this one may qualify.

http://about.usps.com/publications/pub300a/pub300a_tech_024.htm
 
mR_Slug said:
They even have the nerve to use the same pictures!
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The original seller can report them for image theft:

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-policies/images-text-policy?id=4240#section3

And FYI, it's in the GSP FAQ that "eBay and Pitney Bowes shall have no liability and shall have, in their discretion and in any manner that they prefer, the right to dispose of or liquidate parcels (and their contents) that eBay or Pitney Bowes conclude are undeliverable":

https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/faq/global-shipping.html
 
vwestlife said:
"eBay and Pitney Bowes shall have no liability and shall have, in their discretion and in any manner that they prefer, the right to dispose of or liquidate parcels (and their contents) that eBay or Pitney Bowes conclude are undeliverable"
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Wow. So they can, at any point, just say "it's not in our interest to deliver it" and then "liquidate" the package. I am guessing the only reason why no one has sued them out of existence is due to the fact the all the people involved get their money back from Ebay (as near as I can tell at any rate).

Well if this scam involved the USPS at any point, then I would definitely report it to the Inspection Service with as much proof as possible.
 
vwestlife said:
The original seller can report them for image theft:

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-policies/images-text-policy?id=4240#section3
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Apparently you can't do that either.

Will content from my original listing be used if the item is liquidated?

Yes.In the event eBay or Pitney Bowes elects to dispose of or liquidate a GSP item, you grant to eBay, Pitney Bowes and/or any third party designated by either eBay or Pitney Bowes (as eBay and Pitney Bowes may elect) a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, transferable license to any intellectual property rights in the text or images presented in the original listing related to the GSP item, which exists or ever existed, including, but not limited to, the right to reproduce, prepare derivative works base on or display, any copyrightable elements, for the limited purpose of disposal or liquidation of the GSP item. You acknowledge that eBay or Pitney Bowes’s election to dispose of or liquidate the GSP item and allow you to retain your buyer’s payment for the GSP item is sufficient consideration for the transfer of title to eBay and/or any third party designated by either eBay or Pitney Bowes (as eBay or Pitney Bowes may elect in their sole discretion) and the grant of the license.
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From: https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/faq/global-shipping.html#m22_tb_a10__5

So if they determine that the item is undeliverable (and the their definition of undeliverable is VERY broad) then they can decide to liquidate it, and sell it on ebay. Via a complete copy of the original listing, images and all.
 
This thread has me very nervous. Do you really think the GSP (whom I would assume is shipping tons of different things) would really care or be on the lookout to make a buck from a 5150? I mean this is a niche hobby, I have to believe eBay isnt in on it. I dont know.
 
Would you be surprised if they had an automated system to determine if they can make a profit? I wouldn't; they have the means. And profit is profit these days.
 
The post you're looking for is no longer available. Check out this junk instead:

The post you're looking for is no longer available. Check out this junk instead:

mR_Slug said:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Working-IB...g_cvip=true&nordt=true&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I missed it by 2 days!

here is the original listing:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/WORKING-IB...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2748.l2649

Things get even more annoying. If I look at the sellers items for sale while logged in there are none! Not logged in 14,000 items.
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Did they block your account from seeing it, or was it just because this seller does not ship outside of the US?

So it originally cost $150+$50 SH and they sold it for US $299.95?!

Thats the thing with "vintage" items, that is money that could have been YOURS and perhaps then some had you fixed it up and done a better job at salesmanship.

Let it be known that any "good deal" via GSP is too good to be true.
 
VERAULT said:
This thread has me very nervous. Do you really think the GSP (whom I would assume is shipping tons of different things) would really care or be on the lookout to make a buck from a 5150? I mean this is a niche hobby, I have to believe eBay isnt in on it. I dont know.
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Mail is lost, stolen or damaged in transit all the time. It's why you get insurance to cover the potential loss and use reputable shipping services to avoid the problem as much as possible.

GSP is not a reputable shipping service, it's designed to be the lowest cost for Ebay, they don't care about you or your packages. I've had Ebay support tell me to my face that damaged merchandise is the price of doing business and I should expect to absorb any losses. It's why I stopped selling on their platform years ago and refuse to ever again.
 
VERAULT said:
This thread has me very nervous. Do you really think the GSP (whom I would assume is shipping tons of different things) would really care or be on the lookout to make a buck from a 5150? I mean this is a niche hobby, I have to believe eBay isnt in on it. I dont know.
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Well in this case someone bought a computer for $150 + $50 shipping/handling. It left the state or original, hit their larger processing location as was deemed as "Unable to deliver" and then within a few days it popped back up on ebay with the exact same listing and was sold for $299 with free shipping. This is certainly very suspicious, and if nothint else it proves that this type of action is profitable for someone, and history shows that when something becomes profitable, people will pursue it and abuse the hell out of it. So even if Ebay does not do this purposely, they've setup a system that can be abused like crazy to make money for someone out there.

But we need to remember that we do not have all the facts, and that this is just one specific case (though there seems to be allusion to others). So it could still just be legitamate bad luck for the OP (though I personally doubt this).

We do not know:

1. What caused it to be undeliverable, though I suspect this was simply a cost thing (ie GSP was going to loose money fulfilling their obligation to ship).
2. If the entity that sold it for near $300 is actually an Ebay/GSP entity, or just someone who buys liquidated things from them. Or an employee that is manipulating the system for person gain.

That all said, based on what I read in the FAQ around GSP shipping I will NEVER ship that way, nor will I buy something that is shipped that way. Whether or not they do this maliciously, their terms are just way too open ended for my liking.
 
Some number of moons ago, I started thinking (an occurrence that shouldn't generally be handled w/o a fire extinguisher and/or flak jacket), and thought the best way to ship things to/from overseas is in bulk. It's cheaper that way, a bulk shipment, so you're paying substantially less then you would otherwise, in theory anyway. I brought this up on another forum, and was told that this sort of thing already existed. In fact I gave away 2 Tandy 2000s years ago, sent them somewhere in the US, and they were picked up, presumably packaged w/other items, and sent to Australia. So you don't have to trust the monstrous (in more ways then one) conglomerate to handle your stuff. Find some little guy, or a group of little guys. Perhaps people on this list could hunker down and do the research, make shipments 2-6x per year. I for one lost a lot of love for foreign born machines. There certainly was a time when I pined for a RM Nimbus or an Apricot Fn. There certainly are Japanese computers I would love to own, they're very rare though. Count me in on that if anyone gets something going.
 
lutiana said:
Well if this scam involved the USPS at any point, then I would definitely report it to the Inspection Service with as much proof as possible.
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It did actually. The guy sent it via the USPS to the shipping center. I nearly had a heart-attack on that one, as the tracking no. he provided, wasn't recognized by USPS.com. When it got to the hub and into the eBay tracking system I thought I was on the home strait.

VERAULT said:
This thread has me very nervous. Do you really think the GSP (whom I would assume is shipping tons of different things) would really care or be on the lookout to make a buck from a 5150? I mean this is a niche hobby, I have to believe eBay isnt in on it. I dont know.
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It could be that *everything* sold by the 8ten1944 seller is from the GSP. 16000 items, and the overall revenue is quite large. I found these links. I can't guarantee these are 100% accurate, so take them FWIW.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Ebay/comments/1t8pf5/ebay_users_i_just_uncovered_a_huge_scam_theft_ring/
https://www.ecommercebytes.com/C/blog/blog.pl?/pl/2014/2/1392120162.html
This is where I found the seller 8ten1944:
https://www.scavengerlife.com/forum...hout-any-notice-from-paypal-ebay-on-gsp-item/

Piecing it together, indicates AFAIK, everything 8ten1944 sells is very likely from the GSP.

The eBay and Pitney Bowes 'agreement' is essentially a get out of anything clause. The 'agreement' may make this all legal. I have tried to google US law on the issue but I haven't really turned up much. If this is the system the GSP is based on then it almost certainly is abused.

SomeGuy said:
Did they block your account from seeing it, or was it just because this seller does not ship outside of the US?
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I don't *know* for sure either way, I only have one ebay account, but I have noticed problems with items not showing up based on country before. It's quite annoying when you're looking for that one special part.

SomeGuy said:
So it originally cost $150+$50 SH and they sold it for US $299.95?!

Thats the thing with "vintage" items, that is money that could have been YOURS and perhaps then some had you fixed it up and done a better job at salesmanship.

Let it be known that any "good deal" via GSP is too good to be true.
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Here's my conclusion. If it is sold below market value (eBay market value) the GSP is risky. I doubt it would make any difference to something that is rare and unheard of. But If you were to start a thread asking "what are valuable and vaguely common computers?" You'd get back something like early 5150, early Apple II, Altair... Basically anything the casual layman, or re-seller would know about, I would be VERY hesitant to buy it via the GSP.

GiGaBiTe said:
GSP is not a reputable shipping service, it's designed to be the lowest cost for Ebay, they don't care about you or your packages...
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& KC9UDX, A few weeks ago I would disagree, but not now.

2icebitn said:
...thought the best way to ship things to/from overseas is in bulk...Perhaps people on this list could hunker down and do the research, make shipments 2-6x per year...Count me in on that if anyone gets something going.
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This is an idea I like, but what happens when something goes wrong? Say someone in the UK were to buy an Altair from someone in the US. You handled the US side and I handled the UK side. Well what happens if I drop it, or it's damaged between you leaving it in a shipping container and me pulling it out? If something like this were setup, IMHO it would be better to do it as a for profit business, with insurance etc. It's could also have issues with creating rifts between people. I dunno, I'm open to ideas about something like that, may be just need to iron out the bumps.

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I would just point out. I don't know for *Sure* that the GSP, eBay or some of its employees are engaged in some kind of fraudulent scam, as one of those links states. Only that this is what has happened to me. I don't want to outright accuse them of something illegal, as this thread may need editing or removal.
 
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